tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post7452075797914944451..comments2023-12-16T07:28:27.968-05:00Comments on Notes from the Technology Underground: Here's Why Engineers Aren't FamousWilliam Gurstellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12504155694151207039noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-20321440342270693922012-05-08T22:49:42.152-04:002012-05-08T22:49:42.152-04:00Thomas J. Kelly aerospace engineer, Apollo 13 che...Thomas J. Kelly aerospace engineer, Apollo 13 check out his bio, what a role model.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-2403001754718492592012-02-09T16:14:24.275-05:002012-02-09T16:14:24.275-05:00What about Building Engineers?
Peter Rice?
Calatr...What about Building Engineers?<br /><br />Peter Rice?<br />Calatrava?Philippnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-16622569161113788332009-12-19T12:59:41.068-05:002009-12-19T12:59:41.068-05:00Engineers aren't famous for structural reasons...Engineers aren't famous for structural reasons. Go see a movie. At the end of the movie, you get credits. I remember Arnold starred in The Terminator. I do not recall that it was put out by Orion Pictures. Buy a copy of Harry Potter. The big name on the cover is Rowling, not Bloomsbury Publishing. <br /><br />Now, look at engineering. The AD797, one of my favorite op amps, was designed by one solitary engineer. Try to figure out who. Look at the data sheet. It is made by Analog Devices, and that's all that's given. <br /><br />The same is true of almost all fields of engineering (few exceptions include architecture, and used to include non-video-game software). <br /><br />Engineering companies (much like publishers of creative works) would prefer their best employees to keep working for them, and more importantly, not to pay top performers their worth, so they would prefer their competitors to not know who their top employees are. <br /><br />Authors, actors, musicians, and others have strong guilds which give collective bargaining power, and guarantee that the people involved receive credit. Engineers have organizations like the IEEE, which overall, do nothing to help engineers, and otherwise, do more harm to those professions than good. <br /><br />The key grip in a movie can take his friends and family to the movie, sit through the credits, and show his name in big letters. Many engineers can't even describe which product they are working on due to NDAs. <br /><br />If we wanted to fix the problems in engineering, the trick would be openness. We would need to reform organizations like IEEE and NAE to give engineers collective bargaining power (or create new organizations). That bargaining power would need to be used to change industry norms from anonymity to openness. Key engineers on products should have their names associated with that product. NDAs should be severely curtailed, so that engineers can describe their key contributions to friend, family, and their professional community (patents and copyrights provide adequate protection -- limiting duration of NDAs to a couple of years would have minimal negative repercussions, and many positive ones). <br /><br />At that point, wage disparity for engineers would rise dramatically (at least near the very top), as people could see who the good ones were. Kids would have role models of rich and famous engineers. Top engineers would stop leaving the field in droves for better paying professions (almost none of my friends from MIT undergrad are still in engineering -- most have moved on to investment they've all banking, law school, management consulting, and other fields where key contributors are recognized and compensated appropriately).Piotr Mitroshttp://mitros.org/pnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-64090188765399873112009-08-10T14:26:44.784-04:002009-08-10T14:26:44.784-04:00Noam Chomsky's a linguist -- still a scientist...Noam Chomsky's a linguist -- still a scientist, to be sure, but quite different from engineers. I know this because I'm a linguist myself, and I work with engineers.<br />We're naturally more likely to be famous than engineers because we use terms like "uvula" and "deep structure" which sound vaguely sexy.<br />Also, unlike many of your commenters, we are able to recognize humor. ;-)Rebecca Hadenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00940907849228232278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-19188467411549749682009-06-15T04:07:24.334-04:002009-06-15T04:07:24.334-04:00Tim Flannery.
If you make generalisations online...Tim Flannery. <br /><br />If you make generalisations online these days, you should probably try to remember that the English-speaking internet is greater than the English-speaking United States.Australiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-59058950872822069252009-06-13T17:18:39.104-04:002009-06-13T17:18:39.104-04:00Re: Bob
:o) To be technical, I was actually tryin...Re: Bob<br /><br />:o) To be technical, I was actually trying to refer to any field requiring deep knowledge. I just got sidetracked by my little speech on getting people excited about science in general. If you weren't actually talking to me, then I'll stay in my monomaniacal little bubble and pretend you were anyway :o).<br /><br />Whether it's chemistry, physics, finance, medicine, engineering or any other field requiring specialized knowledge and understanding, it has the same problem. Fame is usually a function of wealth generated, or some other attribute that is more 'accessible' to the media than the very specialized work that is what actually makes them standouts in their field.<br /><br />If Galois was around today, he'd probably be famous, but not because he described laid the foundations for set theory. Instead it would be because he was a 'bad boy' mathematician. His contribution to mathematics was far more important than his personal life, but his work was dense, and difficult to understand, and so would never have made him famous outside his field of specialty. <br /><br />A more modern example would be Craig Venter. He's famous not so much for his contributions to the Human Genome project ( which were significant ), but because he has built and fostered a reputation as a 'Scientific Maverick'. I'm not trying to minimize his contributions, but the only reason that I, a relatively educated lay person, actually know his name is because he became a darling of the media, otherwise I would only know him as a nameless member of the team that worked/works on it. But I know HIM because he was the most interesting character doing the work when the media got interested.<br /><br />It's not that we have some fundamental dis-respect for scientists and engineers, or even that we somehow have less respect for them. In the modern world, fame - much like popularity in highschool - is it's own form of currency. It requires time and energy and dedication to cultivate and maintain it, especially if you want to be famous to people who dont necessarily have the education or experience to fully grasp what you do. <br /><br />Most people who have invested the time and work and energy to master any complex field simply aren't willing to take time a focus away from what they consider to be what is really valuable and important to cultivate something like 'fame'. So instead, you only get 'famous' when what you consider really important, or at least really fun and satisfying, happens to cross paths with what is interesting to the media at any given moment.Shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07382760358514904021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-26170427076113657262009-06-13T14:27:47.834-04:002009-06-13T14:27:47.834-04:00P. S. Bob is Colleen's (see above comment) hu...P. S. Bob is Colleen's (see above comment) husband.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14150183347466961184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-41560381176901278742009-06-13T14:24:59.032-04:002009-06-13T14:24:59.032-04:00I hate to be technical, but in order to get anyone...I hate to be technical, but in order to get anyone the least bit well-known, you have included physics, chemistry, math, medicine, astronomy, and TV acting; which of course tends to support the original point. And nobody mentioned The Professor or McGiver, two of the greatest in the last category.<br /><br />OK, I lied - I don't really hate to be technical!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14150183347466961184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-27577882390448407852009-06-13T14:04:36.770-04:002009-06-13T14:04:36.770-04:00Engineering as a profession is not one where being...Engineering as a profession is not one where being famous accrues any significant advantages, although there are exception. Engineers are not famous, but their creations very often are, and that's what goes on the resume.<br /><br />Who would you rather be: the person who gets invited on Larry King to talk about "the future", or the one who gets his/her hands dirty working on all the cool projects? Becoming an engineer typically means self-selecting into the latter group.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13313516392788151206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-57613648534428460742009-06-13T09:04:48.857-04:002009-06-13T09:04:48.857-04:00Very U.S.-centric post, perhaps understandably. In...Very U.S.-centric post, perhaps understandably. In some other countries, however, scientists have higher standing. I'm thinking of a visit I made to the Soviet Union, shortly before its name change, in 1991, as a guest of the Academy of Sciences. I'm American, and I had the eye-opening experience of meeting, and being entertained by, scientists who were real national heroes. <br /><br />Admittedly, Russian science has lagged since the dissolution of the USSR, but ...Robertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658466320690980920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-38973987374090460692009-06-13T08:55:36.480-04:002009-06-13T08:55:36.480-04:00Omg, this describes (and explains) my husband perf...Omg, this describes (and explains) my husband perfectly!colleennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-10760468821671058412009-06-13T06:05:00.984-04:002009-06-13T06:05:00.984-04:00When doctors or lawyers ply their trade, they save...When doctors or lawyers ply their trade, they save people from something bad (illness, death, jail, injustice, ...). When engineers do their job well...nothing interesting happens. For the vast majority of engineers, our job is to make sure things work efficiently, reliably, and most importantly, safely. These are not sexy qualities, but they are necessary. Having been a professional engineer my whole career, I've thought about this a great deal. My conclusion is that the very nature of sound engineering is very un-dramatic. If things are exciting, we've done our job poorly. Examples of "exciting engineering": plane crashes, power outages, sewage plant failures, levee breaks, car breakdowns, etc.<br /><br />The exception to the rule is true innovation. Most folks know who invented the light bulb, who flew the first airplane, who invented the telephone. There is an opportunity for recognition if you invent something really useful, but this represents a tiny fraction of the engineering universe. An interesting case that occurred to me while typing: one of our greatest (read: most publicized) engineering feats is when JFK told us to go to the moon and we did. I don't have the figures at hand, but we spent a sizeable portion of the US GDP on that project. The odd thing is I can't name a single engineer that was involved. I'm a little ashamed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-3885270255574226132009-06-12T23:19:09.993-04:002009-06-12T23:19:09.993-04:00Ummm, Woz, anyone? Grant Imahara? 'The Google ...Ummm, Woz, anyone? Grant Imahara? 'The Google Boys'? Dean Kamen ? <br /><br />Expand it to tinkerers and geeks and the list gets even longer...<br /><br />Adam Savage, Jamie Hynman are BIG standouts. <br /><br />Bill Nye, Neal DeGrasse Tyson. Turn down the academic accomplishment filter, and you find Bruce Schneier, Neal Stephenson, Jason Calcianis, Kevin Rose. Open it a little further and you start to find people like Cory Doctorow, Xeni Jardin, Mark Freuenfelter and the rest of the crew from BoingBoing. <br /><br />There are a lot of role models out there for personal and social awareness strong advocates of technical and scientific pursuits.<br /><br />I also have to disagree about your casual dismissal of Stephen Hawking. All of these guys are famous for more than their accomplishments. They are famous for their personal quirks, and personalities. Stephen Hawking's disability is his media hook. It provides an accessible angle for the media to cover him. combine that with his incredible contributions to cosmology and ou have a recipe for a media darling.<br /><br />It's unreasonable to expect very many members of highly specialized fields to be in the public eye. How many famous surgeons do you know? Most people know one ( Sanjay Gupta ) if they know he's a surgeon at all. <br /><br />How many famous financiers do you know? Warren Buffet, Steve Forbes and who? How many can you name that aren't Billionaires? Why do you know them because they are brilliant financiers, or because they are billionaires?<br /><br />Do you know the first name of Hewlett and Packard? Of course not - it's Bill and Dave. You only know their last name because they built a multibillion dollar company. No deep discipline is exciting enough to outsiders to make someone 'famous'. <br /><br />I want people to see just how much fun science and engineering are as much as the next guy, but the fame model just doesn't apply. If you want people to get excited about science, the just go out and PLAY. Science is easy to love, you just have to show people that there is more to it than the boring garbage that passes for high school science now.<br /><br />I dare you to find a person that isn't excited by what liquid nitrogen does to ... well just about anything. :o)Shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07382760358514904021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-4269838376422822952009-06-12T19:30:20.703-04:002009-06-12T19:30:20.703-04:00It's George TAKEI, not Takai.
Just sayin.It's George TAKEI, not Takai. <br /><br />Just sayin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-48290467013771880762009-06-12T18:48:11.714-04:002009-06-12T18:48:11.714-04:00Stephen Hawking
Michiko Kaku
Grant Imahara
Neil d...Stephen Hawking<br />Michiko Kaku <br />Grant Imahara<br />Neil deGrasse Tyson<br />Bill Nye<br />David Suzuki<br /><br />and those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I (and any group of friends chatting over a pint in the bar, or a cocktail on the deck) could think up more if pressed.<br /><br />I don't think there is quite the gap in intellectualism you think there is.<br /><br />And honestly, I think there has never been a period where specialized professionals have gained widespread popularity. For example, how many piano virtuosos or champion chess players can you name?RTMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17202986543081534020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-59731390775131235082009-06-12T18:22:36.989-04:002009-06-12T18:22:36.989-04:00Michio Kakku has a very high public profile; your ...Michio Kakku has a very high public profile; your dismissal of Stephen Hawking is unwarranted and inaccurate; Linus Torvalds is well known, as is Niklaus Wirth; MIT's Marvin Minsky is well known, as are Gregory Benford and Neil deGrasse Tyson.fyngyrzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10609909498498355812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-87006072335252797362009-06-12T18:20:54.031-04:002009-06-12T18:20:54.031-04:00I'm an engineer, and I am not like this at all...I'm an engineer, and I am not like this at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-14013147327643919542009-06-12T17:07:02.304-04:002009-06-12T17:07:02.304-04:00The reason Engineers are not famous is because Eng...The reason Engineers are not famous is because Engineers do not work alone. Case in point, Dean Kamen.<br /><br />Dean does not dream up all the things his group creates, he merely leads a team of engineers and scientists, and he gets the money to do crazy things, and he knows how to play the press.<br /><br />The Segway? Very interesting, but not very popular or useful. His prosthetic limb? Ground breaking! Much more likely to change the world, but not much fanfare for it.<br /><br />Modern Engineering is just too big and too complicated for the Lone Wolf to do anymore.Shanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03605660561691357227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-5882766732977589862009-06-12T15:40:43.109-04:002009-06-12T15:40:43.109-04:00Bill Nye the science guy-- ask any kid..
The physi...Bill Nye the science guy-- ask any kid..<br />The physicist neil degrasse tyson-- he is funny as hell-- should hear him talk how a human would deal with a black hole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-41668313005319368072009-06-12T14:22:41.426-04:002009-06-12T14:22:41.426-04:00Seriously? No famous engineers? Linus Torvalds, ...Seriously? No famous engineers? Linus Torvalds, Bill Gates, Dean Kamen, Larry/Sergei?John J Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786641637685863296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-89788640453408959222009-06-12T13:53:41.045-04:002009-06-12T13:53:41.045-04:00Dean Kamen is pretty damn famous. I would venture...Dean Kamen is pretty damn famous. I would venture to say that there are few if any famous engineers & scientists because they are not being truly innovative and exciting. Discover or invent something amazing and the world will take notice. Cure for AIDS? Nope. Cure for Cancer? Nope. Flying cars? Nope. Holographic computer display at my desk? Nope. Where is the future people? What are you doing with your big giant brains anyway? Dean Kamen seems like the only one who comes up with (sometimes) mindblowing stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20039256.post-67739429631976271072009-06-12T12:57:34.164-04:002009-06-12T12:57:34.164-04:00Not such a problem in the UK, and off-hand (though...Not such a problem in the UK, and off-hand (though all now dead:)<br />Stephenson (father and son)<br />Brunel (father and son)<br />Alec Issigonis (the Mini)<br />Telford (canals and roads)<br /><br />But no living ones come easily to mind, except Clive Sinclair and James Dyson.Martin O'Londonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06695740950348747393noreply@blogger.com